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Hi Michelle, if I got your post right, you paid for the vacation and can go with or without him? First of all I know the romantic fantasy of a perfect family only too well. It gives hope that one day, just one day it will all come true. Rarely does though. You did recognize the enabling part, that is good. Maybe there is a way to turn it into something nice for you and your daughter. Do you really want him to go? And if he does, will it be a a nice time for you? If you have serious doubts, just go on without him. Take a friend like you did in the past and go and have a blast!
If you would like him to go with you, why not set him a deadline and tell him to come up with his share of the cost at a certain day and if he doesn’t, for whatever reason, go on without him. Personally I think that would not be enabling because he will not reap the benefits without doing his part. At least in my opinion. Cgs make promises all the time and have no problem breaking them without a second thought. Mine did it all the time. He bought stuff for our daughter and then never had the money to pay any important bills. When my daughter got older she told me that all she wanted was for her dad to be there and not to cause us so much pain. The material things meant nothing to her and she also thought that her father was all about money and never about the relationships, no matter with whom.
Maybe going with your child and a friend would do you more good than adding him to picture, I don’t know. Not an easy decision for you at this time. I hope it works out the best way possible and you are able to enjoy your hard earned vacation!I hear you loud and clear when you talk about your father’s eval. My hb was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. As are so many other cgs. He has not had any significant mood swings since he quit the useless medication when he first started inpatient treatment. The ugliness you describe is real and painful for everyone involved. Personally it also did me some good. I set out to learn all I could about cg and in the process shed all the shame and whatnot once I understood that it is his disease, not mine. I had nothing to do with it. Not with the gambling and ultimately not with his recovery either. Other than reaching my own rock bottom and telling him that no matter what happened, I would not be part of this insane dance anymore.
At least cg is now a disorder in it itself in the DSM V instead of just lumped under not specified compulsive behaviors. A step in the right direction. So I think it is very important for non-cgs to get all the information they can. It did help me a lot to get a perspective on his and my own issues.
I agree with you re ownership. Always believe in it and always will.
As for me, I’m glad that I don’t have to live with the active addiction anymore. It did so much irreversible damage that some of it will stay with me for the rest of my life due to my situation being somewhat unusual and having some other issues of my own.I read this when you first posted it and it is so true, at least for me. I would like to add something here if you don’t mind. Through all those years I had to live with the incredible ugliness of cg, I was made aware over and over again that a lot of people do not accept that cg is a disease, just like any kind of substance abuse. The people I met who work in the field called it the silent disease. We cannot smell it or see it. While not many people hide a loved one’s addiction to alcohol or drugs anymore, gambling is not talked about much. Lots of folks still believe that all it takes is the willpower to stop. Period. And I don’t exclude myself when I think about the start of my painful journey. I didn’t understand it and thought that all my hb needed to do was to decide to just quit. I kept it hidden for a long time because I was ashamed of it. Where I come from, gambling was illegal for a long time, the few casinos were operated by the government and regular people couldn’t afford to go there. As a result, gambling addiction was something dirty and only dark.
When everything erupted in chaos and my hb went to prison, it added to the shame and he was seen as just another criminal. I am sure that nobody would have treated my daughter and me as bad had he turned out to be an alcoholic or a drug user. Society accepts this way more readily still than cg. So that adds to the ugliness of it even more than just the gambling itself. Just my point of view.So that was the first breakthrough for your wife I guess. Good for the both of you! What stuck out for me was that she asked you to help her cure her addiction. I’m sure you know already that neither you nor she can CURE the addiction. It can be controlled but will always be there. Just like a recovering alcoholic can never drink again, she cannot gamble ever, including anything that has only remotely to do with it. I’m a stickler for language, sorry, so for me there is a difference between help and support. Maybe it’s the same, I’m not sure. Personally I would chose the word support. Support in her efforts to jump of the slippery slope of cg. Are you sure there is nothing to forgive? For me, forgiveness is a huge part of supporting a cg. But again, JMHO. Every addiction is a beast, but also involves actions and choices the addict makes. I think that the many yrs of apologies, cries for help, pleads for forgiveness etc. I heard from my hb just wore me out. I so hope that the two of you can tame the beast.
I don’t believe that you can or should try to take her mind of gambling, that is part of HER recovery work. If she is serious about it she will gradually set different priorities for her life, including you and your son and find joy in other things than gambling. I would like to suggest that it might be helpful to find a GA group she feels comfortable with and there are many of those who offer a GamAnon group at the same time and in the same building. You could make that a part of your schedule and join forces to fight the beast off. I did that for a while with my hb and even though he was still a long way from true recovery, it helped us to put some things into context. This is all just how I see things but maybe it gives you some ideas.Maybe it would help you to block the emails. You don’t have to open them in fact it is better to not do that. You can block numbers on your cell phone as well. I block the hell out of junk mails and calls/texts from people I don’t want anything to do with. Usually really easy to do and prevents them from showering you with messages you don’t want.
Hi Jordan,
my daughter was 14 when her dad went to prison for a crime he had committed to finance his gambling. Needless to day that it was a huge shock for her. We had not told her about the gambling at all but she had witnessed almost everything else related to it for years. The arguments, the anger, the periods of silence and towards the end my terrible fear of what was going to happen to us. Not to mention the countless occasions when her dad promised to do something with her/us and then didn’t show up. My panic when he didn’t come home and I couldn’t reach him. You name it, she witnessed it. When I told her about the prison sentence I had to tall her the reason. Her reaction was that she told me she wished we or at least I had told her about what was going on. I don’t know your son, some kids are “older” than their age, some are not. I don’t know how much he saw, heard and or/experienced. And I would never advise you what to do. Your wife probably tries to protect him and might also feel some guilt deep down inside, or some shame, Nobody knows but her.
From your posts it sounds like you live in the US. Most states have a council on problem gambling, might have a slightly different name in some. These councils are a great resource for cgs and the families. The have lists of groups and counselors certified to treat cgs and families in your area. From my own experience I can say that I wished all this would have been available when the sunshine hit the fan here. It would have helped my daughter and myself a great deal. Maybe you could find someone who can help you with the situation re your son. Here in WA the topic of cg was integrated into the social studies curriculum, starting in JH. It is age appropriate and part of the topic of substance abuse etc. Imho a therapist who is trained in treatment of cg might be able to help you. Just an idea.Hi Rose, I love Velvet’s image of the beast in the corner. It is so true imhop. I just want to add something re how a cg in recovery sees him/herself when the addiction was in charge. My hb told me that gambled when he felt overwhelmed with a situation and told himself, that the whole world was against him. Nobody cared, he felt deprived, misunderstood, you name it. So then the addiction whispered in his ear that he deserved a little something to treat himself. This went on even after he served a prison term for embezzlement. He was upset that nobody supported him, turned their back on him and keeping on gambling was all he had left. Today he tells me that he never felt appreciated by anyone, (which wasn’t true) and used his addiction to punish everybody he thought had deserted him. So basically he believed that his feelings of being unworthy did not come from within but were created solely by the behavior of family and friends. Does that even make sense I wonder?? But I cannot describe it any other way.
The addiction thrives on secrecy. It needs to be hidden and if only to ensure some possible future resources for money. That was the case at least for my hb. Hang in there, there is life after gambling.Hi again Anna,
this is a real problem here in the states at least. Everyone has mood swings and tah dah, you must be bipolar. And take medications. My hb was prescribed said pills after he relapsed the last time. The VA psych Dr. put him on bipolar meds. After a conversation of less than an hour. No assessment, nothing. Ignoring the facts that he has an autoimmune disease that damages his liver. I call that irresponsible. Of course people who really suffer from any mental health conditions need appropriate help. But many don’t need it really. And pills are cheaper than a lengthy therapy. Been there, done that, got the tshirt :).
A lot of drs also are not aware of the correlation between certain psychotropic meds and human behavior. The dopamine issue is fairly new and they are just at the beginning. Being from Europe, I do not believe in the culture of giving chemicals to just everyone, kids or adults, who don’t fit the perfect mold and are not streamlined. JMHO of course. There a lot of certified counselors for cg and other addictions in this country who are oblivious to a lot of very important facts.
And it turned out that my hb is not bipolar. It was the addiction and nothing else. Addictions of all kinds, especially cg are really good at mimicking mental health problems. It would be interesting to see if your bf ever gets the urge to gamble again without taking meds.Hi Anna,
there might be some truth to your observation. Now this is just something that is starting to emerge as part of the physiological issues involved in cg. some researchers here in the US found that Parkinson’s patients who are treated with a medication that increases the Dopamine level in the brain developed a gambling addiction that vanished once they were taken off the meds. There is no real proof so far but they might be on to something. Dopamine plays a role in cg, at least that is what some of the psych experts believe. Every person, every condition is different so who can tell what is going on. But I agree with you, there is a pill for everything in this country and people love to take them without paying enough attention to the side effects. Or knowing enough about it of course. I’m very happy for you two that in your bf’s case it worked out!!!!!Velvet’s comment made me want to edit my statement that everyone “knows” what’s going on with your wife. I meant that in general terms re the anger, the protests, the lies and every other tool the addiction is using, that is what is familiar to most of us. I hope this will be more correct.
Hi dcor, I was wondering how you are doing. No, you are not complaining. What is going on with your wife is all too familiar for everyone who deals with a cg. Her addiction is very upset with you right now because you are threatening it by not believing the lies anymore. If you are on to it, it will be more difficult for the beast to frolic undisturbed. What you are saying is as much white noise to her than her angry accusations re not trusting her are to you. Arguments don’t do a thing for you. Neither does trying to keep tabs on her. Addicts live in their own world and believe what they are saying. Try to take care of YOU, pay the bills to make sure YOU are safe from her actions. My hb was outraged that I didn’t trust him and we argued all the time. At the end this made him mad and gave him reason to go and gamble. “If she doesn’t trust me I might as well do what she thinks I’m doing anyways.” I ended up just shrugging my shoulders and told him that I could not and would not trust a word he was saying unless he proved otherwise. I also told him at the end that the only thing I wanted from him was to show me enough respect to not expect me to believe what he was trying to sell me. I had to leave the room to end the conversation right then and there. Sometimes refusing to take part in this charade is the only thing that’s left. Indifference did the trick for me. No matter how furious I was, I just didn’t want to waste my time anymore. If her car has 1 or 4 flat tires she will find a way to either get help or contact you. And frankly, what she is willing to accept from you makes not one bit of a difference to either one of you. The only thing she needs to accept is that she is a cg and is hurting the both of you until she is willing to seek some kind of help. Your posts bring up a lot of memories for me so that’s why I write lengthy replies :}
Hi Erin, your story is very familiar to me in many aspects. In 2003 my hb was convicted of embezzlement (83K) and sentence to a year in prison because he worked for the fed. gov. and stole the money from his workplace. He also has to pay restitution which he cannot do in his lifetime, he is 62 and disabled. The day the sentence was announced, I considered my marriage over. We are still married on paper for various reasons but do not live together. Gamblers are pathological liars, no doubt about it. But my hb, just as yours kept on lying about lots of things. He had not been gambling for 11 years prior to that huge relapse but lying was a daily thing for him. He avoided anything he found unpleasant, anything that he knew would bother me. When he knew I would not agree with something, he did it anyway and lied about it. After being released from prison, he relapsed right away and then several more times until I called it quits on him and told him he had to move out of my house (he lived on my couch for 4 years). He completed a 120 day inpatient treatment program and has been in recovery every since. What he learned in tx was an eye opener. Lying was his way of coping with life as a child with an extremely abusive mother and several stepfathers. His siblings did the same. He now believes that this was the seed his cg grew from, at least partially.
Do you know for sure that your hb is not gambling? Going to GA and counseling could just be lip service. Do you have any indication that he is actually working? It sounds like you support your family by yourself? To me, something doesn’t add up. Just mho here of course. If you are the only bread winner AND pay HIS restitution, would it not be better to take this money and pay a baby sitter for your kids? I’m an outsider here and just look at the naked facts so please don’t take offense. At the end of the day, his actions put him in the position he is in and bailing him out of the consequences by paying the restitution makes things very easy for him. Not contributing to the family expenses sounds outrageous to me. But maybe I’m too harsh because my take on the hole my hb dug for himself was to just tell him to go and take care of it and so I handed it over to him. His choice, his consequences, his altogether. Today, I support his recovery as good as I can and am willing to. Should he relapse again, he is on his own. His retirement is garnished every month for the restitution payment and he has to live with it. And ironically this is the reason I could not buy my own place which is the only thing I have left to wish for. At the end of the day, the choices he made will affect me directly forever.
Sorry for the long post, I just wanted you to know that you are not the only one dealing with these issues. What is important really is YOU and your kids. Take care of yourself and the children how YOU think is best. I wish you strength and peace of mind. The burden is just too much for just one pair of shoulders.Hi dcor, I feel for you. This is so hard and exhausting. Your wife is in full denial, she refuses to see what is going on, explains it away and will ultimately result to blaming everyone but herself. That’s addiction talk. Whatever she says is just white noise and aimed to deflect from the gambling. Imho it is important for you right now to protect YOURSELF and the kids. If you have not done so, remove her from all your accounts and credit cards. Hide money and your cards from her as she will ultimately start to look elsewhere once her own funds run dry. Re her cards, you can find info about your responsibilities on the internet. You can also find your state’s Gambling Council, they will probably know something about your legal status. Personally I would see a lawyer, the first consultation is usually free. Then you know where you stand. A cg cannot be trusted with anything so you don’t have to feel bad about going behind her back. If you can survive on your income, pay the bills and your credit cards only. Stay calm if you can not matter how much ranting and raving the addiction produces. I would offer her support if and when she is willing to address her gambling. Do not give her any money, no matter what reason she comes up with. Sure thing, the people at the shop are her friends. She spends a lot of money there. I am sure they know what is going on. As for me, I felt a lot better once I figured out the details and made sure my hb could not touch any funds other than his own. This is very difficult and involves a lot of hard, painful work. Is there anyone you can talk to? Maybe a GamAnon group in your area? It helps to talk to people who know what your are going through. And they often have a lot of very helpful advice also.
Hi dcor, I hear you about being stretched thin. To the point of breaking I guess? First thing I would do is get a credit report for the both of you. You can do hers if you have her social. And sign up for a monitoring service. They will alert you any time she applies for a loan, a new card or cash advances. Once you have info about the whole “damage” she has done so far, you might want to sit her down without being angry or emotional, just trying to be matter of fact. The addiction will not want to listen and get really upset but you should not let that stop you. It’s important that you don’t get angry and let her know that you want to support her but can only do so if she is willing as far as the finances are concerned. What happens if she continues to gamble away her paycheck? Will you be in danger of losing your home, be without power or anything? My husband only had moments of enlightenment when I showed him the numbers. Not even in his worst days was he able to deny the naked facts. It is exhausting, I know. Do you have access to her account? That way you could at least check what is going on. Do not threaten her with anything you are not prepared to go through with. The addiction will just happily ignore you and keep on moving. Can you find a GamAnon group in your area? It helps to talk to people who are in the same boat. RE the finances in your state: maybe you can find out if you are able to inform her credit card companies that you are not willing to back her debt. I should have done that! I filed bankruptcy for debts I didn’t owe and knew nothing about. As a last effort, you could think about filing for a legal separation. Just for the time being. You don’t have to actually leave, just put the document in a drawer just in case. That way, you can protect yourself. Learned my lessons the hard way and looking back I still don’t know how I survived it all. But I did and so can you!!!!
Hi Berber, two yrs is a great accomplishment. However, it sounds like he is white-knuckling it right now, kinda like a dry drunk. Not gambling but still in gambling mode so to speak? I don’t know if you know the book “The relapse syndrome” by Terrence Gorski and maybe I mentioned it before. This helped me tremendously to understand why my hb in all the years he didn’t gamble (11 after the first treatment and about 4 after the second) was still hard to deal with on a daily basis for several reasons. It all sounds to darn familiar to me.